GM Chevy Tahoe, Yukon Hybrid Emission Recall

I just received a recall notice from GM today about the Tahoe Hybrid (which I no longer own).

Reason For This Recall: On your 2008 model year Chevrolet Tahoe vehicle, the current battery voltage reading, which determines when the battery is charged, may be incorrect. This could cause a Service Engine Soon (SES) light to illuminate and the vehicle may shutdown at low speeds when the vehicle is attempting to transition from electric mode to gasoline engine mode. The vehicle can be restarted; however, it will likely continue to shutdown until voltage error is corrected.

What Will Be Done: Your Chevrolet dealer will reprogram hybrid-related modules. This service will be performed for you at no charge.

Chevy Tahoe Problems

Since I started this blog a few days ago, I’ve seen traffic spike from nothing to over 100 visitors daily. Too bad I haven’t had the time to finish it. ( I still have a day job.) I’ve read some of the comments on the other blogs regarding my posts and I want to thank everyone who visited my site.

My intention for setting this up was not to bash GM or teach everyone to take advantage of lemon law. The premise behind the lemon law is – “You are made whole but not unjustly enriched.”. The law is great for new car owners that are served with a lemon, but it is far from perfect and is subject to abuse by car companies. My ordeal has not ended but as of today, I can tell you that if you buy a new car thinking the lemon law will protect you, and the car you are buying is $35,000 and up, you will be better served buying preowned.

I did not decide to invoke my lemon law rights just because I have made the cut and was eligible. Actually, if I had a chance to complete my posts you will see that my vehicle has been in the shop 6x within 2 months for the same defect. I’ve had to spend on hotel bills for 6 people and cancel a vacation with my family during winter break because I did not have a tow vehicle. During that time, my Tahoe was towed to the shop 3x. You have no idea how helpless you can feel when you are out and stranded with your entire family. (A tow truck only sits 2.)

Having a vehicle quit on you once or twice is annoying. 4 to 6 times is absolutely infuriating. Having a vehicle stall is one thing. Losing brakes is another. It is not like losing vacuum assist. This one felt more like stepping on frozen butter. So imagine yourself in a brand new Tahoe and you’ve lost brakes twice and towed 3x. All within 60 days.

For those of you who left comments in The Truth About Cars, here’s my take:

jaje :
February 25th, 2009 at 10:03 am
I can’t tell you how many times that friends and family have written a letter to Honda or Toyota about a problem even post warranty and to see them actually address it. My aunt’s ‘88 Accord was rusting badly (200k miles in Chicago) and she wrote a letter to them about how much she loved the car but couldn’t afford a new one. They sent a letter back to her to bring it in to the dealer – gave her a free rental car and returned her car 2 weeks later completely repaired and repainted at no charge (even replaced a worn seat cover). Now most of her friends own a Honda from that small effort of good will.

I could not agree with you more. I think my Chevy sales rep is one of the best I have met. The last dealership I used was also a pleasure. But as far as I’m concerned, I think it is GM that destroys any goodwill built up by their dealers. I was expecting to be floored. Instead, I hit the floor when I passed out. I guess I’ve been spoiled by Lexus.

Bridge2far :
February 25th, 2009 at 10:15 am
“Several are also losing braking on a regular basis.”
I checked with a GMC service department. There are no known concerns/complaints with the Hybrids regarding brakes. I suspect this is heresay. Or carefully placed misinformation.

I think there are not a lot of GM Hybrids out there based on the huge availability of 2008 models on top of 2009 models. You need a Certified Hybrid Tech to work on these so there are not a lot of dealers that have experience on them yet. As I add more info, you will see scanned images of my invoices. There’s your proof. Also you need to remember that the burden of proof is with the customer and in most cases the techs are flying blind unless they get an error code. The era of mechanics that come with “THE FORCE” are gone.

galaxygreymx5 :
February 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
And finally, if GM is potentially having major teething problems on a relatively “conventional” hybrid setup, what does that say about the supposed savior of GM, the Volt? New, unproven batteries in a new chassis with a new engine with new software, all glued together in a very rushed fashion to avoid financial and media catastrophe. The GMT900 hybrids were very basic developments compared to what’s going on with this thing, so if these problems are real that’s not good news.

If GM wants to succeed with the Chevy Volt, they need to take care of every hybrid customer they have. Which is not a lot by my estimates.

The remarkable thing is that the buyback customer wants ANOTHER one, because he likes the car so much. I think that’s very important to take note of, so that readers understand that even if GM makes world-class cars that please customers with their performance, the peripheral issues facing the company may be enough to erode market share (and tax dollars) even faster.

Yes. I loved the Tahoe. It is quieter that my RX when the cheap toolbox interior is not rattling. Overall, it tows great. I get about 17.5mpg when towing and you hardly feel it is behind you. I did consider a replacement Tahoe. GM is offering me the 2009. It just did not make economic sense to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade to a 2009 model when my Tahoe is about 5 months old. I’m being made to spend this amount just because the Lemon Law mandated a usage fee that puts me almost at 0.50/mile. Like rubbing salt in my wound. Last week I gave up. I just want my money back. I’ve seen posts from 2009 Tahoe owners with the same issues so why should I spend to get the same thing?

KixStart :
February 25th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Now I understand the $.50/mile issue. Use a Lemon Law proceeding to ream the customer. Brilliant.

KixStart: Everyone I talked to agrees with you. Even an ex-GM Dealer Service Manager. With GM putting both hands in our pockets for BAILOUT MONEY, you’d think they would do anything to keep the customers they have. I bought my Tahoe in the end of Aug 2008. The problems started at 5300 miles, end of December. Now they want to charge me close to 0.50/mile for usage plus transportation fees if I choose a vehicle that is more than 200 miles away. What ever happened to – “Just Give the Customer What He Bought and Paid For?” Now that my vehicle is at 7200 miles, they cap their offer at 7500 miles. Basically like putting a gun to my head. They are just ungrateful and totally unworthy of bailout. I’m writing my congressman tomorrow.

Since I got tired of their tactics, I filed my case with the BBB. So now they say I have to follow Lemon Law rules and pay the entire mileage used. Even the hundreds of miles spent going to and from the dealership and the road tests they did. Doesn’t pay to act in good faith with a car company.

For a company that has both hands in our pocket asking for BAILOUT MONEY, I thought they would make me whole. It is time companies in the US grow a conscience. Especially those asking for taxpayer money.

For all its worth, this feels like they have one hand extended asking for my tax money, another hand at the back with a dagger waiting to stab me.

Chevy Tahoe Problems – Battery Issue – Part IV

This is my most recent repair. I’m not sure if it is finally fixed. Time will tell but I’m hesitant to put any more miles on this vehicle since the usage charges are about 0.50/mile and losing $50.00 for every 100 miles of test drive is steep. But here is the invoice of the repair.

Remember that prior to this repair, my battery was just replaced less than 1 week ago. The new battery appears to be 487YR 7YR.

Lemon Law – What You Need to Know

In a nutshell, the lemon law covers non-conformities. A defect, serious safety defect, or condition that substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of a new motor vehicle to the consumer. Substantially impair means to render the new vehicle unreliable, or unsafe for ordinary use, or diminish the resale value of the vehicle more than a meaningful amount below the average resale value for comparable motor vehicles.

You need to determine the “Lemon Law Rights Period” in your own state. I suggest you read through the lemon law process before you buy the vehicle and call your Consumer Affairs department and find out how car companies differ in their approaches to settle the complaint as they vary greatly.

The following information applies to Georgia.

REASONABLE NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS

The law clearly states the number of repairs attempts needed before the final repair attempt but does not tell you how to do this in a timely manner.

1. A serious safety defect in the braking or steering system that is not corrected after being subject to repair at least once during the lemon law rights period.

*** The first time you bring your vehicle to the shop, keep all the invoices, notes of any conversations you have with the service manager. Call the manufacturer regarding this problem and get a SERVICE REQUEST NUMBER or Trouble Ticket. Have a phone number programmed in your cellphone for quick access.

Next print the REQUEST FOR FINAL ATTEMPT TO REPAIR, fill out any information that is permanent and leave out the miles and date. Prepare envelope with certified mail and return receipt and file it with the request and put it in your glove compartment.

***** The next time your vehicle is disabled again, call the manufacturer first and reference your Service Request Number. Tell them that your vehicle is currently inoperable and that you are mailing them the Final Request today as you speak. You need to do this before the dealer schedules tow truck to pick up your vehicle. If your vehicle is at home when this happened, don’t send it in for repair until you have mailed the letter and got a verbal confirmation or instructions from the manufacturer. Take notes of the conversation and keep it on file. If you have your vehicle towed to the shop prior to making all those arrangements, then it is not considered a final repair attempt. The manufacturer will call you yet again to schedule the final repair and you will be doubly inconvenienced.

Once the manufacturer receives the “Request for Final Repair Attempt” they will contact you within 7 days to schedule the repair. It does not matter if your vehicle just came out of the dealership and you have not experienced the problem since the last repair. Just bring the vehicle to their service center of last resort.

Keep track of the deadline for their response. In my case, the manufacturer actually missed the final repair deadline and it automatically made me eligible to proceed with the next step which is the “Request to Replace or Repurchase”.  I did not however take advantage of this situation and gave them their final repair attempt. In any proceeding, arbitration or lawsuit, acting in good faith is always a good idea.

Tahoe Hybrid Problems – Part I (Lost My Brakes)

My problems with the Chevy Tahoe Hybrid started on a trip to Asheville from Georgia. As I started to back out from my sloped driveway, I suddenly lost my brakes, brake assist as the tech calls it as I was still able to stop the truck but it had maybe 5% left of brake power left in it.

My DIC display was flashing the following error messages:

SERVICE TRACTION CONTROL – SERVICE STABILITRAK – SERVICE BRAKES SOON and of course the Check Engine light is on.

The vehicle was still running and I was still able to restart the vehicle. I have to mention this because these problems would recur multiple times during the next 45 days but the circumstances would change.

At any rate, pushed OnStar, they “suggested” I don’t drive the vehicle (of course – with no brakes – c’mon). Gave me 30 free OnStar calling minutes for the inconvenience (that never appeared on my account) and tried to schedule a tow truck to take me to Bill Heard (I had to tell them the dealership was closed a month ago). Vehicle was brought to Carl Black instead.

The techs was not able to find the cause of the trouble. Error codes were cleared and the vehicle was returned to me.

My trip was delayed 6 hours and I had to put 6 people in hotel rooms.

My suggestion to new car buyers in a similar situation – READ YOUR LEMON LAW RIGHTS THE FIRST TIME YOUR VEHICLE ENCOUNTERS A SAFETY RELATED ISSUE.

Tahoe Hybrid

I bought my Tahoe Hybrid in August 2008 just a few months before the subprime crisis struck and shut down my dealer (Bill Heard). I was one of the lucky ones that got my vehicle and my trade in check before their lights went out.

I have to admit, my initial impressions on the vehicle were good. One thing I noticed right away it was very quiet, much quieter than my Lexus RX330. I was pleasantly surprised and thought, GM finally done something right. Too bad, it’s  a little too late to the party.

A few weeks after the purchase, the vehicle had to go back to Bill Heard for a firmware upgrade. No big deal but it had around 6 computers according to the tech and each one took a few hours. So I had to leave it there overnight.

For those interested in real world mileage numbers, the Tahoe Hybrid 2WD does live up to the 21mpg on the sticker. With a little light footed driving, you can get it up to 24.5mpg. On a recent trip from North Georgia to Mississippi, I was traveling along I-575S -> I-75S -> I-20W when I noticed I was doing 30mpg on average on a 20 mile stretch. Must have been the level and slightly downhill terrain. Overall, the Georgia – Mississippi roundtrip averaged 23.8mpg. That is pure freeway.

The following posts won’t be good news anymore to potential Chevy Tahoe Hybrid, GMC Yukon Hybrid or Cadillac Escalade Hybrid owners (or even the upcoming Chevy Volt) because I’ve ran into nothing but problems with the vehicle after the 3rd month of ownership.

Next – Tahoe Hybrid Problems – Part I